Thursday, November 18, 2004
ALL-TIME TOP 100s: Center Fielders
Good morning! Well, we worked out our technical difficulties with the remaining Top 100 Lists are back. Today, we will continue the Top 100s series that Justin Ahern researched for us with the centerfielders. If you would like some background on the process used to develop this report and ranking, please click here. Here are the previous Top 100 lists:
All-Time Top 100s: First Basemen
All-Time Top 100s: Second Basemen
All-Time Top 100s: Third Basemen
All-Time Top 100s: Left Fielders
If you have any questions for me, or if you have any questions for Justin, please e-mail me, and I will be sure to forward your thoughts to him.
THE CENTER FIELDERS
Here are the Top 100 Center Fielders of All-Time. Please send me your thoughts on the Top 100s.
Rank Player Year Born Total 1 Mickey Mantle 1931 189.13 2 Ty Cobb 1886 183.16 3 Tris Speaker 1888 180.55 4 Willie Mays 1931 176.40 5 Joe DiMaggio 1914 159.31 6 Ken Griffey Jr. 1969 142.61 7 Duke Snider 1926 140.89 8 Billy Hamilton 1866 140.09 9 Jimmy Wynn 1942 135.61 10 Larry Doby 1923 135.17 11 Jim Edmonds 1970 134.77 12 Bernie Williams 1968 134.37 13 Dale Murphy 1956 133.15 14 Wally Berger 1905 133.08 15 Kirby Puckett 1961 132.13 16 Cesar Cedeno 1949 131.33 17 Earl Averill 1902 129.57 18 Benny Kauff 1890 129.35 19 Edd Roush 1893 129.04 20 Hack Wilson 1900 128.57 21 Richie Ashburn 1927 128.29 22 Fred Lynn 1942 127.27 23 Vada Pinson 1938 127.25 24 Hugh Duffy 1866 126.48 25 Amos Otis 1947 124.11 26 George Van Haltren 1866 123.64 27 Roy Thomas 1874 123.58 28 Max Carey 1890 123.25 29 Andruw Jones 1977 123.15 30 Brett Butler 1957 122.17 31 Andy Van Slyke 1960 121.34 32 Jimmy Ryan 1863 121.33 33 Eric Davis 1962 120.76 34 Lenny Dykstra 1963 120.66 35 Willie Davis 1940 119.99 36 Cy Seymour 1872 119.82 37 Al Oliver 1946 118.30 38 Earle Combs 1899 117.36 39 Clyde Milan 1887 117.33 40 Dom DiMaggio 1917 116.88 41 Steve Finley 1965 116.43 42 Ray Lankford 1967 116.37 43 Marquis Grissom 1967 116.36 44 Ginger Beaumont 1876 116.30 45 Pete Browning 1861 116.27 46 George Gore 1857 116.10 47 Chet Lemon 1955 115.03 48 Ellis Burks 1964 114.51 49 Kenny Lofton 1967 114.41 50 Carlos Beltran 1977 113.46 51 Brady Anderson 1964 112.49 52 Curt Flood 1938 112.36 53 Chick Stahl 1873 112.08 54 Rick Monday 1945 111.19 55 Willie Wilson 1955 110.84 56 Mike Griffin 1865 110.06 57 Mike Donlin 1878 109.93 58 Johnny Damon 1973 109.72 59 Lloyd Waner 1906 108.54 60 Dummy Hoy 1862 108.05 61 Willie McGee 1958 106.71 62 Andy Pafko 1921 105.85 63 Paul Hines 1852 105.51 64 Ben Chapman 1908 105.49 65 Dwayne Murphy 1955 105.33 66 Lloyd Moseby 1959 104.90 67 Mickey Rivers 1948 104.74 68 Happy Felsch 1891 104.59 69 Garry Maddox 1949 104.35 70 Cesar Tovar 1940 104.10 71 Mike Cameron 1973 103.45 72 Bill Lange 1871 103.19 73 Pete Reiser 1919 102.86 74 Dode Paskert 1881 102.84 75 Ron LeFlore 1948 102.72 76 Matty Alou 1938 102.51 77 Jimmy Barrett 1875 102.13 78 Tommie Agee 1942 101.97 79 Gorman Thomas 1950 100.67 80 Jake Stenzel 1867 100.30 81 Jose Cardenal 1943 100.07 82 Tony Gonzalez 1936 99.99 83 Paul Blair 1944 99.18 84 Baby Doll Jacobson 1890 99.05 85 Curt Welch 1862 98.96 86 Jim Landis 1934 98.01 87 Dave Henderson 1958 97.89 88 Devon White 1962 97.80 89 Cy Williams 1887 97.51 90 Carl Everett 1971 96.99 91 Billy North 1948 96.79 92 Bill Bruton 1925 96.68 93 Barney McCoskey 1917 96.15 94 Gus Bell 1928 95.60 95 Tom Brown 1860 95.07 96 Johnny Mostil 1896 94.73 97 Sammy West 1904 92.82 98 Amos Strunk 1889 92.48 99 Doc Cramer 1905 91.43 100 Jimmy Piersall 1929 90.69 101 Terry Moore 1912 90.66 102 Sam Chapman 1916 90.44 103 Mike Kreevich 1908 89.99 104 Mark Kotsay 1975 88.48 105 Walt Judnich 1917 88.36 106 Bill Virdon 1931 87.02 107 Steve Brodie 1868 86.28 108 Torii Hunter 1975 81.59
Justin's Thoughts:
I knew that Mantle was going to rank #1 here before I did the rankings because James has written about it before so I am not going to comment on that. James did a better job of explaining it than I ever could, anyway. The first thing that strikes me about this list is how the top 5 guys have really distanced themselves from everybody else. It was once thought that Griffey would be able to go down as being one of, if not the, greatest of all time. He is still one of the greatest, but he won't catch DiMaggio even if he is healthy over the rest of his career. He would have had a hard time catching him even if he didn't have injury problems over the past few years. The top 5 guys on this list were all amazing players. DiMaggio lost prime years during WWII, but I don't think that he would have caught Mays anyway. There is a lot of separation there, too. For wartime players, 1942 and 1946 were considered consecutive years in this rating so the only total that suffered for these players was the career number. For DiMaggio that cost him 6 rating points, at most.
Puckett would have been in the top 10 if his career didn't end early. The remarkable run by Jim Edmonds over the past few years has put him in position to go into the top 10 shortly. Bernie Williams will have to have another big year to move into the top 10 and I don't know if he has it in him. Andrew Jones will probably end up somewhere around #15. I think that he has already played his best baseball, despite being only 28 years old. I guess that he could surprise me. Eric Davis was one of my favorite players when I was growing up. He had every bit as much talent as Barry Bonds, but he had injury problems and later cancer derail his career. He still rates as #33. He could have been much greater. There are a slew of active players in the 40's, but I don't think that any of them are going to do anything significant over the rest of their careers. Carlos Beltran just had his best season, but it is hard to project where he will end up. He should easily make it into the top 20 and will probably be in the top 10. He won't crack the top 5 unless he hits like Barry Bonds for the rest of his career. Johnny Damon will probably end up somewhere in the 30's. Mike Cameron will probably be somewhere in the 40's. Torii Hunter will probably end up somewhere around 80th unless he starts to hit a little better. I know that it sounds low for him because he is such of a great defensive player, but so was Devon White. Torii is a little better hitter than White was.Seth's Thoughts:
Just look at those first five names again. Mickey Mantle. Ty Cobb. Tris Speaker. Willie Mays. Joe Dimaggio. Not only are these guys some of the greatest players in baseball history, but their exploits on the baseball field are legendary. Dimaggio, like Ted Williams, missed much time because of the war. So, his career Win Shares could have been higher. This is just a very impressive list!
Ken Griffey Jr was always one of my favorite players. His rookie season, 1989, I remember going to the store and finding packs of Bowman and Donruss and Fleer and just knowing who to look for to get a Griffey rookie card (Because the collation back then was so poor). He was so young and so good. He was so fun to see swing, and play defense and that smile was electric! It is unfortunate that he started receiving threats in Seattle and went to Cincinnati. Actually, that wasn't the problem, a slew of injuries have derailed an incredible career. First, none of the injuries can be credited to a lack of effort. His injuries have all occurred while he was trying to make a play. But even with all that the last few years, he is still #6 on this impressive list. I think that says a lot!
As you all know, Kirby Puckett was my favorite player of all time! I was 7 when he was called up to the Twins and I remember watching his retirement on TV with water in my eyes. He was incredible, a fireplug, a leader and an incredible hitter who won championships. What could his career numbers have been if not for the glaucoma? Would he have suffered the same fate as Dale Murphy, who was just as good a player, but probably stayed in baseball too long?
You can accuse the New York and East Coast media of being biased as much as you want, and I know I do as frequently as I want to. However, Bernie Williams, a career Yankee, may be one of the more underrated players in baseball today and in history. He just continues to put up numbers. He's strong enough a hitter that even if Carlos Beltran signs with the Bombers, Williams will still DH.
There were a lot of players from the '80s that I knew where good, but in seeing this data, I realize that they were even better than I thought! Brett Butler ranks #30. Andy Van Slyke is #31. Lenny "Nails" Dykstra is #34. I think that sometimes we don't realize how good some of the players that play these days really are, particularly in the context of major league history. Maybe it is because of shows like SportsCenter or Baseball Tonight. We can see daily how individuals do, with visual highlights. Back in the "olden days" all you had was box scores and season stats to look at, so that helped some players be elevated to superstar status. Maybe I'm wrong.
In 1947, Larry Doby played in 29 games with the Cleveland Indians, becoming the first African American player in the American League. That is what he was known for, but he was also a very good player, ranking 10th on this list. In his thirteen year career, he played for the Indians, White Sox and Tigers. He hit .283/.386/.490 with 253 homers and 970 RBI. Also, his defensive numbers were well above league average!
Another man who is probably underrated in the history books is Dom Dimaggio. Joe's brother, Dom played 11 seasons with the Boston Red Sox and hit .298/.383/.419. As impressive is that he too missed three full seasons because of World War II. He was a smaller player than his brother and didn't hit a lot of homers, but he consistently hit .300. He played in seven All-Star Games. And, I am sure it has been written about time and time again, but you do have to wonder how the Yankees/Red Sox rivalry played in their family!?
To continue to look at when most of these players played, I again looked at how many of the players were born before 1930, and how many of those were born before 1900. I also wanted to see how many have played in the last couple of decades, so I looked at how many were born after 1950:
(Out of Top 50)
Position Before 1930 Before 1900 After 1950
CF 23 15 17
LF 26 14 12
SS 28 14 14
3B 21 11 17
2B 29 14 13
1B 19 8 19
C 15 5 17
Twins rankings:
#15- Kirby Puckett (Twins 1984-1996)
#70 - Cesar Tovar ( Twins 1965-1972)
#108 - Torii Hunter (Twins 1997-Current)
Kirby Puckett was incredible and deserving of his Hall of Fame status as a player. Cesar Tovar is known maybe for having played all nine positions in a game, but he was really a very good player. From people who have told me about him, he was a joy to watch. Speaking of a joy to watch, how fun is watching Torii Hunter playing center field? He is incredible. Hopefully he will continue to improve at the plate and he could jump a ways up this list.
Do you have any thoughts on these center field ratings? Do you have any questions for myself or for Justin Ahern on this ranking or how this was comprised? If you have any thoughts, please e-mail me, and be sure to check back in the coming weeks for the rest of the positions.
One night after destroying the talented Miami Heat team at home, the Wolves were on the road to play the World Champion Detroit Pistons. The Wolves took a 45-41 lead into halftime, but a 33-18 3rd quarter win for the Pistons gave them enough to gain the 93-85 win.
The Wolves have one certainty, and that is Kevin Garnett. Last night, he scored 24 points and grabbed 13 boards. But after that, it just is never as consistent. It is scary to think of what this team could do when running on all-cylinders. But the Pistons, particularly their defense, are a huge factor and deserve a lot of credit for keeping the rest of the Wolves offense at bay.
Against the Heat, Wally Szczerbiak and Sam Cassell combined for 41 points. Last night, they combined to go 3-14 for 11 points. But then Latrell Sprewell didn't do anything on Tuesday night and came through with 24 points last night.
Again, the Wolves got two really good performances last night against the Pistons. The rest of the players had off games. And yet, the Wolves won three of the four quarters. If not for just a really bad 3rd quarter, the team still could have beat the Pistons, on the road. I know a loss is a loss, but I do think that this could be looked at and a lot of positives could be taken from it.
Any thoughts on the Wolves? E-mail me.
I want to encourage everyone to check out BrentNet today. Having seen these Top 100 Lists, Brent has decided to put together a list of his Top 100 hip hop songs of all-time. Part 1 arrived yesterday and included selections 100-76. Included are song from Salt-N-Pepa, Busta Rhymes, and my favorite on this list Biz Markie! And, I completely agree with his comment on "The Humpty Dance"!! Gotta love it! Also, Brent decided that in order to "spread the wealth" (and not have all Jay-Z, Outkast and A Tribe Called Quest songs), he would only include one song from each singer. In other words, he will pick the top Jay-Z song (in his mind) and rank that.
I am looking forward to seeing the rest of this list because there are a number of songs here that I would probably rank higher. I am curious to see which song he picks from Jay-Z or from Eminem or Snoop Dogg and where they rank. My choices - For Jay-Z, it's a toss up between "H To The Izzo" and "99 Problems" (which I think takes us back to some old school). I guess having some of these albums, I end up liking songs that never made it commercially. For instance, in my opinion, Snoop's best stuff was on the Doggystyle CD. You would think that "Gin and Juice" or "Who Am I?" would be my favorite Snoop song. For me, without question, "Lodi Dodi" is my favorite song.
Young MC is best known for "Bust a Move", which is a decent song. However, my favorite song of his is "Non-Stop."
And, I know Brent isn't the biggest Eminem fan, but I totally am. My friends find it comical because I don't swear, ever. Not out loud at least. And yet, I absolutely love Eminem's music, always have. I can honestly say that I just love the energy and passion that you can hear throughout his songs. Also, they are fun. Sure there are times when he goes off on individuals, including the President (frequently), and I may disagree with it, but even that he speaks intelligently. And some of his songs are just fun! And yeah, he samples a number of songs, but what rappers don't? I also don't have a problem with that. Over the weekend, I bought the new Eminem CD, Encore. I really like the song "Just Lose It". But my favorite song on there right now is "@$$ Like That". It is funny and is a rip-off of Triumph the Comic Dog. He mentions Jessica Simpson and Hilary Duff and the Olson twins and more, and it's just hilarious! For those that have heard it, the phrase "Duh, DoingDoing Doing" will probably make you laugh! But "Rain Man" is a funny song to. I have all of his CDs and each one has a couple of songs that made it big, but there are a couple on each that I think are just great. But the song that made me fully realize the talent level of Eminem (or Marshall Mathers if you prefer) was "Stan." Now that song is full of emotion and is delivered so well that you have to grasp the story.
OK, I'm a big fan of rap music. I don't know if any of you are, but I'd love to hear you thoughts. Send me an e-mail and lets ra... chat!
That's it for today. Please feel free to let me know what you think. Have yourself a great day! If you have any questions, comments or ideas for future topics, please e-mail me.